Pope Francis' first interview with an Italian television channel was
granted to TV2000 and InBlu Radio, the Italian Episcopal Conference's
broadcasters.
In a 40-minute question and answer session, the Pope
speaks to web and news directors Paolo Ruffini and Lucio Brunelli, about
his reflections on the fruits of the Extraordinary Holy Year, which he
describes as "a blessing from the Lord", on the changes the Church needs
to undergo, on the idolatry of money and attention towards the poor.
A
brief preview of the interview was aired after the special reports on
the ceremony for the closing of the Holy Door.
The "blessing" of the Jubilee
"I can only report the news that's been coming from all around the
world. The fact that the Jubilee was not just celebrated in Rome but in
very diocese in the world, in the cathedrals and churches the bishop had
indicated, universalised the Jubilee a bit. And it did a great deal of
good. Because the whole Church experienced this Jubilee, there was a
Jubilee atmosphere. The diocese have reported people approaching the
Church again and encountering Jesus: it was a blessing from the Lord
(...) It is an ecclesial line where mercy is, I wouldn't say discovered
because it has always been there, but strongly proclaimed: it is like a
need. A need that is good in a world afflicted by the illness of a
throwaway culture, the illness of a closed heart, of selfishness.
Because it opened up people's hearts and many people were able to
encounter Jesus."
"Mercy Fridays", exploited girls
"I visited girls who had been rescued from prostitution. I remember
one African girl, she was beautiful, very young and had been exploited -
she was pregnant -, beaten and tortured: 'You must go and work', she
was told... And as she recounted her story - there were 15 girls there
each of whom shared their stories with me - she said to me: "Father, I
gave birth in the winter, in the street. Alone. On my own. My baby girl
died:" They had forced her to work up until that day because if she
didn't make her exploiters a lot of money she was beaten and even
tortured. Another girl had had her ear cut off... And I thought not only
about the exploiters but also those who pay the girls: don't these
people know that their moment of sexual satisfaction means their money
is going towards helping the exploiters?"
The "dreadful crime" of abortion
"That same day I went to visit the maternity ward at Rome's San
Giovanni hospital and there was a woman there crying, she cried and
cried in front of her little twins... so small and so beautiful: the
third one had died. There had been three but one of them died. And she
was crying for the child she had lost as she caressed the two that
lived. The gift of life... And I thought of the children who are gotten
rid of before they are even born, this dreadful crime: they are gotten
rid of because it's better that way, because it makes things easier,
it's a big responsibility - it's a very serious sin isn't it? - it's a
big responsibility. She had three children, she wept fro the one who had
died, she was unable to find consolation in the other two who were
still living. Love for life is important in every situation."
God's greatest enemy is money
"We are the ones who make up the Church as an institution; we are
the community. God's greatest - greatest! - enemy, is money. If you
think about it, Jesus gives money lord's status, master's status when he
says: "No one cans erve two masters, two lords: God and money." God and
wealth- He doesn't say God and - I don't know - disease or Hod and
something else: he says money. Because money is an idol. We see it now,
in this world where it seem money pulls the strings. Money is an
instrument that is there to serve and poverty is at the heart of the
Gospel, Jesus speaks of this clash: two lords, two masters. I either
follow one or the other. Do I follow this one, He is my Father? Or do I
follow this other master who puts me in chains? The truth is this: the
devil always enters through people's pockets, always. It's his way in.
We need to fight to create a poor Church for the poor, according to the
Gospel (...) St. Ignatius teaches us in the exercises that there are two
hurdles: the first one is wealth, which begins to corrupt our soul;
then, vanity, soap bubbles, a vain life that's all about appearances and
then there is arrogance and pride. And this is where all sins stem
from. But the first hurdle is money, the lack of poverty."
The temptations a Pope faces
"The temptations the Pope faces are the same as those of any other
person, any other human. The devil always manages to work out what our
weaknesses are and uses these to worm his way in: impatience,
selfishness, a bit of laziness... And temptations accompany us right up
until the very last moment don't they? The saitns were tempted right
until the very last moment and St. Therese of the Child Jesus said we
need to pray a gerat deal for those on their deathbed because the devil
unleashes a storm of temptations in that moment."
Life sentences are death sentences "in disguise"
"Whe I have a moment, I try to telephone the prisoners I have met. I
have this feeling inside me: why them and not me? The Lord has enough
reasons to send me to prison and he closed a blind eye... to the start
of so many bad things in my life that if the Lord had taken his eye off
me... And then, there's a thought many of us have: that person's in
prison because they did something bad: they need to pay. Prison as a
means of punishment. This is not good. Prison is like a 'purgatory' to
prepare for re-integration. there is no real sentence without hope. If a
sentence offers no hope then it is not a Christian sentence, it is not
human. This is why the death penalty is not acceptable. Yes, you may say
to me, but in the 15th and 16th centuries they killed criminals,
issuing the death sentence with the hope of going to heaven, there was a
chaplain who sent you to heaven. I am thinking of the great Fr. Cafasso
there at the gallows. but this was another anthropology, a different
culture. We cannot think like this today. Life sentences are so cold,
they are death sentences in disguise. But what happens when a person
cannot be guaranteed reintegration due to their mental state? There are
forms of reintegration through work, culture, that involves some form of
confinement but they need to be made to feel of use to society whilst
being kept under surveillance, but their soul changes: this is no longer
a person who has committed a crime, a criminal, but someone who has
turned their life around and is doing something in prison that allows
them to reintegrate and they feel a different form of dignity."
The grace of humour
"A sense of humour is a grace I ask for every day and I pray that
beautiful prayer by St. Thomas More: 'Grant me, O Lord, a sense of good
humour'; I ask for the ability to laugh when I'm told a joke...: it's a
beautiful prayer. Because a sense of humour is uplifting, it helps you
to see the provisional element of life and to take things with the
lightness of a liberated spirit. It is a human attitude but it is the
attitude closest to God's grace. I once met a priest - a great priest, a
great pastor - who had a great sense of humour but he did a great deal
of good with that too, because he relativised things: "God is the
Absolute but he can sort himself out, it's doable... don't worry..."
(...) It's that capacity to be a child before God. Praise the Lord with a
smile and a tasteful joke."
I am allergic to flatterers, I deserve detractors
"I am alergic to
flatterers. It comes naturally eh? Flattery is not a virtue. Flattering
another person is to use antoher perosn for a hidden or obvious reason
but it is used to obtain something for oneself. It is also shameful. In
Argentina we call flatterers "sock lickers" (boot-lickers, Ed.)... When I
receive praise, even when it is for something that has gone well, you
know straight away when the person praising you is praising God, "that's
good, well done, keep up the good work, that's the way it's done!" or
whether they are being oleaginous... Detractors speak ill of me and I
deserve it because I am a sinner: that's the way I see it. That doesn't
worry me."
The Prodigal Son's elder brother and rigidity
"The elder son was morally rigid: 'He spent all his money on a life
of sin, he doesn't deserve to be welcomed'. Rigidity means always
adopting the role of a judge. This rigidity is not typical of Jesus.
Jesus reproaches the doctors of the church, he is very much against
rigidity. There is an adjective that describes such people, which I
would not like to have directed at me: hypocrits. Just read chapter 23
of Matthew's Gospel: "Hypocrit". These people theorise about mercy
saying justice is important. In God - and in Christians since it is in
God - justice is merciful and mercy is just. The two go hand in hand:
they are one thing (...) After the sermon on the Mount, in Luke's
Gospel, comes the sermon on the Plain. And how does it end? Be emrciful
like the father. It does not say: be just like the Father. But it's the
same thing! Justice and mercy in God are one thing. Mercy is just and
justice is merciful. The two cannot be separated. When Jesus forgives
Zaccheus and has lunch with sinners, forgives Mary Magdalene, gorgives
the adulterous woman, forgives the Samaritan, what is he? Overgenerous?
No. He is imparting God's justice, which is merciful."
The disease of "cardiosclerosis"
"I will use a word I learnt from an elderly priest (...) He taught
me a word about the disease of this world, of this era, of this time:
cardiosclerosis. I believe mercy is a remedy against this disease, which
is the root cause of this throwaway culture: 'We don't need him or her,
this elderly person, send them to the old age home; this child that's
on the way, no, no, no, return to sender..." and so these people are
discarded. 'No, we need to drag this city into the war, and what about
that other one?' -'Oh yes, let's drop bombs wherever, on hospitals,
schools'."
For a more merciful world
Think about this third world war we are experiencing, this piecemeal
third world war; arms are sold and they are sold by manufacturers and
arms traffickers. And they are sold to both sides int he war because
there's a lot of money to be made through arms trafficking... Here there
is a serious hardheartedness, tenderness is lacking. 'But, God...": Let
us pause there. God became tender, he approached us. Paul says to the
Philippians: "Jesus emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant,being
made in human likeness." When we speak of Christ, let us not forget the
flesh of Christ. This world needs this tenderness that tells the flesh
to touch the suffering flesh of Christ and put an end to suffering! I
think warring States need to take stock of the fact that a life is worth
a great deal, instead of saying': 'But one life doesn't count for
anything, I'm interested in the territory, this is what I'm interested
in..." A life is worth more than territory!"
The secret to keeping up with endless commitments
"I don't know how I manage, but... I pray: This helps me a great
deal. I pray. Prayer helps me, it means being with the Lord. I celebrate
mass, I pray the Breviary, I speak with the Lord, pray the rosary... I
find prayer very helpful. It also helps me sleep well: this is a grace
from the Lord. I sleep like a log. The day the earthquake struck I
didn't feel a thing eh?
Everyone felt the bed tremble... No, really, I
sleep six hours but like a log. Maybe this helps me in terms of my
health. I have my own share of problems you know? I have a problem with
my spinal column but it's ok at the moment. I do what I can, I don't
overexert myself: in that sense, I do pace myself a bit."