Andy Burnham is considering visiting the Vatican to meet Pope Leo XIV in the spring, the Holy See’s minister for relations with states, Archbishop Paul Gallagher, revealed in the discussion following The Tablet’s annual lecture on 13 October.
Archbishop Gallagher emphasised the significance of the United Kingdom having its first cradle Catholic prime minister since the Reformation.
Andy Burnham has acknowledged the influence of the principles of Catholic social teaching – subsidiarity, solidarity and the common good – on his political philosophy.
He also said that we can expect Pope Leo to visit the UK at some point in the years to come, as he will be keen to return the King’s visit to Rome: “Diplomacy is about reciprocation.”
Archbishop Gallagher was speaking as Pope Leo’s cancer diagnosis was announced on Tuesday. “Having lived through the latter years of Pope Francis, when he was disabled and with reduced energy, we were all struck by Leo’s being younger and sporty.
“But when something like this happens, it’s a reminder that he is truly one of us: not immortal, but vulnerable like everyone else.”
In the lecture, entitled “Keeping the Dream of Peace Alive”, Archbishop Gallagher explained how the Church’s diplomats promote the common good of all peoples and maintain lines of dialogue with every nation.
In the discussion following the lecture, he said the Vatican’s policy on China “will not change”, and that the Church will continue “trying to do what it can in a very difficult situation” there.
The agreement between the Holy See and China, extended for four years in October 2024, aims to mend the split between the state-sanctioned Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association and underground congregations loyal to Rome.
Under the framework, the Chinese government puts forward candidates for the episcopacy and the Pope can approve or veto them.
“All recent popes have firmly maintained dialogue with Chinese authorities,” said Archbishop Gallagher. “The agreement is controversial, but better than the Church being deprived of bishops.”
He said comparisons with the excommunication of the illicitly consecrated Society of St Pius X (SSPX) bishops were misplaced: “The offers to the Lefebvrists were very generous.
“It’s much more complicated in China. The decision at the moment is to persevere in dialogue and ultimately to seek better results and even a better agreement.”
With regards to Russia’s war on Ukraine, Archbishop Gallagher said it will be important to see what happens in November and if the international community can renew its pressure to “get back to the negotiating table to bring us towards a peace agreement”.
“Russia can be persuaded by the Russians; we must be hoping and praying that they realise the suffering that this war is causing to their own people,” he said. “Our pressure and our prayers must be kept up.”
Archbishop Gallagher said that although there have been many conflicts over the course of his lifetime, now “we all get the feeling that the stakes are higher” because “arms are more lethal”.
“I remember Pope Francis saying that we were living through the Third World War piecemeal,” he said.
“I was rather scandalised by that. Now we realise that he was very perspicacious: he understood better than many the dangers that we were facing. Sadly, some of his prophetic words are being realised today.”
He said that when Magnifica Humanitas was released in May and declared just war theory to be “outdated”, embassies around the world, especially those with large Catholic populations and Catholics in the military, were “a bit nervous”.
“Questioning just war theory is not very new,” he continued. “We have moved on a long way from Pacem in Terris, which already said just war theory is practically obsolete because of the nature of modern weapons.
“But this statement is a work in progress. Catholic institutions, including the Holy See, will work on it in depth. We will be doing that in the coming years. It is not the Pope’s intention to make a definitive judgement.”
Reflecting on the political situation in the United States, Archbishop Gallagher said the Catholic Church there “is a reflection of American society: there is polarisation there as well”.
“The US bishops are aware of their prophetic role and are striving to fulfil it. The Holy See can only engage with US government the same way as with everyone else: we have never pulled back from engaging with all sorts of leaders and regimes.”