Cardinal Sean P. O'Malley, the Roman Catholic archbishop of Boston, spoke at the cathedral rectory in Boston's South End on Tuesday last. Below is a transcript of the conversation: Q: As you look back, how do you think about these last five years?
A: Well, they’ve been challenging, certainly. I don’t think it’s about me. The history of the archdiocese is about hundreds of thousands of Catholics, and many, many priests, and religious, and deacons, and others who make up this archdiocese, and my ministry has been one small part of what’s happened in the last five years. But it’s been a great journey of faith. I came here in obedience to the Holy Father, and I embraced this as being God’s will in my life. I’ve always found change from one place to another very difficult, because I tend to sink roots in, and get attached to people and a place. But the more I move, the more I find out that everywhere you go there are wonderful people, and great challenges, and, at the same time, an opportunity to be a part of this family that is the Catholic church that I’ve committed my life to, in all of its vicissitudes and glorious, sorrowful, and joyful mysteries that make up the life of the church.
Q: Can you remember how you first felt when you got the call from the nuncio?
A: I dropped the phone. I was in shock because I had not even been in the diocese of Palm Beach for a year yet, so I never thought that I would be asked to take this ministry. And it was quite a shock.
Q: And obviously Boston was much in the media then.
A: It was, yes. I think the whole country was focused on what was happening here, and we were quite aware. Although I think when I got here I found out that things were worse than I had feared.
Q: Is it even possible that you could have said no?
A: Well, I suppose, although, as I say, I have a vow of obedience, and the way I interpret that is that unless I had some overriding reason, even then I would have shared that first with the Holy Father. I did ask him to reconsider, and it came back immediately with, no, this is what he wants you to do. And I was also concerned about leaving Palm Beach so quickly – things were just beginning to settle down there.
Q: The communication was through the nuncio, or directly with the pope?
A: It was through the nuncio.
Q: And when you say things were worse than you had feared, what do you mean? What did you find when you got here?
A: Well, obviously the pain of the sex abuse scandal, and the sense of betrayal on the part of many people, and disappointment on the part of others, anger on the part of others. And then the fact that we were in economic free-fall. I think it was about a $15, $16 million a year operating deficit, we owed $30 million to the Knights of Columbus, the hospitals were losing $30 million a year, the lay pension fund was failing, the priest pension fund was failing, and we had 1,000 lawsuits against us. The seminary was at the lowest enrollment in its history. Things were just in very, very bad shape.
Q: And if you had to make that same kind of assessment today, how would you describe the situation?
A: I would say most of those problems have been vastly improved on. One of the remaining challenges we have, that we’re working on right now, would be the priest retirement fund. And the seminary for instance has gone from 30, I think we’ll have 90 next year. We’ve been able to pay off a lot of our debts through the sale of property. The lay pension fund has been put aright. The Catholic hospitals are making money and have new leadership. The schools initiative, I think, has been very helpful in stemming the problems we were having with school closures. I think we’ve been able to bring on some wonderful people into leadership roles to help, with a new chancellor and vicar general, and head of the schools, head of the hospitals, head of the television station, new development person, new PR/communications. All of those. And it’s been wonderful that so many people have come forward to help. On the different committees that have been set up, the people have worked very, very hard. Even the whole transparency effort was just an incredible effort on the part of volunteers to help the church to restore our credibility, and to help people to have an understanding of what our situation really is. The people on the Finance Committee, the Diocesan Pastoral Council, the Priests’ Council, all of these people have worked very, very hard. It’s been a great help. And then, certainly, the wonderful work that’s been done in the whole area of the sex abuse crisis, trying to help us minister to the victims and their families, and to do all that we could to make sure that our Catholic parishes and schools and agencies would be the safest possible place for young people. Priests have certainly suffered a lot through this whole period of our history. Many of the priests felt that they were under suspicion simply by being a priest. So they’ve been very challenging times, but I think that there has been motion forward. And the occasion of the 200th anniversary has given us an opportunity for reflection on our larger history. And also to recommit ourselves to the basic task of evangelization, which is the reason for the existence of our local church, the diocese. And trying to help people have a deep sense of personal vocation, a call to holiness, a call to ministry, to family life. And at the same time, as Catholics, to have a sense of being part of a larger mission. That we are not a ‘Jesus and me’ religion -- we are a church, a community of faith, that has relationships with our brothers and sisters in the faith throughout the world, and have a common mission to try to announce the good news of Jesus’s Gospel and to try to build a civilization of love.
Q: You mentioned a lot of things in there. I want to double back to some of them. First, you mention the priest pension fund, and I want to touch on that because I know it’s a concern of a lot of priests. What is your commitment to them, or your goal? I periodically will get calls or e-mails from people saying they’re worried they’re going to lose their health care, their retirement, that they’re going to be somehow on their own.
A: That’s the farthest from reality. I am committed, the church is committed, to take care of our priests, and we will do whatever is necessary to do so. The fact that we have been able to resolve all of these other financial problems puts us in a much better position to deal with this challenge. Many different companies have faced problems with their pension funds. It’s not just our archdiocese. But we certainly are working with some very talented people, looking into different solutions, and we will be presenting those in the next few months to the priests to get their input. But over and over again we want to assure the priests that the church is here to take care of their needs and we certainly will not default on that. The priests are our most important resource, and we want them to feel that they are appreciated and that the diocese and the Catholic community stands behind them.
Q: You mentioned all these folks who have been helping you in paid or unpaid capacities. Some people have, in observing you, suggested that they thought you felt sort of isolated when you first got here, and that that sense maybe has changed.
A: Well, I came without knowing anybody, and it was a very large archdiocese. But I think that, over the years, I’ve certainly had the opportunity to get to know a lot of people, and to discover a great wellspring of goodwill towards the church and a desire to help us in these very difficult times. And that’s been very, very comforting.
Q: And as you’ve brought people in – I know there’s a tendency in my part of the universe and outside of this building to view everything through the prism of politics – but it has been striking you’ve brought in both Bryan Hehir and Scot Landry, Jack Connors is back in the fold, it does not appear that you are asking everyone where they stand on every Catholic teaching before you accept help from them, and I wonder how you think about that?
A: Well, I certainly do not want to in any way compromise the teachings of the church, and as a bishop, this is what my life is about, trying to make those teachings known. But the people who are helping us, I feel as though they’re people that love the church and are anxious to put their talent at the service of the church’s mission.
Q: I gather you don’t believe – you said this at the beginning when we talked about the 58 priests who had called for Cardinal Law’s resignation – I gather you’re not interested in sort of –
A: Punishing them? No, I'm not even interested in knowing who they were. I think that we are about trying to build up the unity of our community that has been divided so sorely on so many different fronts and calling people to come home and to be a part of the church, and not trying to polarize the situation.
Q: Tell me a little about some of the symbolism that’s so often associated with you. Why do you continue to wear the habit?
A: ‘Cause I continue to be a Capuchin friar. That’s my vocation and it’s who I am. Our way of life is very important to me even though I’m not able to live in our monasteries. I try to participate as much as I can. Certainly, the habit is a symbol, but it’s the commitment that I made many, many years ago, and it’s still very meaningful and important to me.
Q: And what about the car? I know you traded down. You also traded down in terms of where the archbishop lives.
A: Well, part of that is that I am a Capuchin friar. If I had my druthers I would prefer to be living in greater simplicity, but I know that the office of archbishop has certain requirements, so I try to adjust to those.
Q: You have often seemed not thrilled about the public figure aspects of being archbishop of Boston – I think you reflected on that in a piece for the Pilot right at the beginning.
A: Well, I see the bishop's role as being a pastor, more than being a celebrity. And I suppose that’s what I’m uncomfortable with, not the role of being a leader or a pastor, but the celebrity status is something that I don’t feel terribly comfortable with.
Q: So what do you do about that?
A: Powdermilk biscuits.
Q: Do you think it’s fair to say that these first five years have been focused on internal business of the church as opposed to more external relations in terms of politics, media, business, that kind of stuff?
A: Certainly, the situation of the church demanded that we deal with the internal problems first and foremost.
Q: Do you see that continuing or as you look ahead do you see that changing?
A: Well, I think it will evolve, but certainly, the internal challenges in the archdiocese are considerable. And yet, issues like immigration and others are very important to us, and we try to be of service to the larger community, particularly through our social service agencies and so forth. (That) does demand that we take stake of what is happening in the larger society and how the church can make a positive impact on that.
Q: I know you’ve made some efforts at outreach – I was talking with the mayor yesterday and he said you were scheduled to have breakfast with him today. He said you've been much more in touch. I gather you are developing relationships with some of the elected officials. How do you think about whether that’s valuable, why that’s valuable or not?
A: Well, many of the issues that we deal with as a church are also being dealt with by public officials. Particularly the quality of life in the city, and crime, and things like this that also impinge on the life of the church. And if there’s any way that we can cooperate with city officials, we want to do that.
Q: What about, have you had any contact with Senator Kennedy since his diagnosis?
A: When he became ill, his wife had a priest contact me, and I went to see him in the hospital, and saw his family there. He had not yet received the diagnosis – it was when they first brought him up from the Cape.
Q: And I don’t have a sense whether you have a relationship with him or not.
A: I certainly have met him on a number of occasions over the years. It’s not exactly a social relationship,
Q: This gets back to the subject we were talking about earlier. How do you think about Menino – there was this flap about Menino and Catholic Charities during your tenure here. You’re constantly encountering people who a certain wing of the church thinks are problematic because of positions they’ve taken. You engage.
A: I think that we’ve been very clear what the teaching or the positions of the church are, but at the same time we want to deal with everyone, and to work with whoever we can to make this a better city, a better community. Hopefully those who disagree with our positions will come to understand why we hold them and to have a greater appreciation of them. With the church, it’s not about the culture wars. It’s about teaching what Jesus wants us to teach, and calling to people to lead a more human life. And we believe that the commandments are written on our hearts, and that when we live a fully human life that we will embrace them.
Q: At the beginning again, there were periods where you seemed to express unhappiness. Somebody asked you about whether you were depressed. There was some phrase about wanting God to take you home. Has your attitude changed, or was it misread?
A: Well, I don’t think I was depressed. Certainly in the last five years there has been darker moments. But I have not lost my faith or my desire to serve God’s people.
Q: How would you describe how you feel about this assignment now?
A: Well, I think it’s a great privilege, to be the archbishop of Boston. I’m very humbled by the fact that the Holy Father would ask me to do it. It’s a very exciting job. Never a dull moment, as they say. It has allowed me to appreciate the great number of outstanding priests and religious and laypeople that make up the church of Boston.
Q: How long do you expect to be here?
A: I serve at the pope’s pleasure, and presume that, if I live to be 75, that I will spend those years in Boston.
Q: Obviously you’ve had to make a lot of very tough decisions, and the archdiocese is now smaller institutionally than it was. There have been churches and schools that have closed, and the Brighton property that was sold. How do you think about those kinds of decisions?
A: Well, any decision that I’ve made, I’ve tried to make for the good of the Catholic people It wasn’t for my own good. If it were for me, I would have made other decisions. But I’ve tried to face every problem that the church has had, and come up with a solution for it. Certainly the number of parishes that we have is less, but I like to think that we are present everywhere in the diocese, and that we have an opportunity of strengthening our presence because of restructuring. And as we plan for the future, one of our great concerns is doing an even better job of passing on the faith to our young people. And one of the things that we’ve been doing now is working with different committees that have been looking at different areas of our pastoral life, and certainly pastoral planning is one area that is of great importance to us, to make sure that as we move forward that we will have the personnel available to serve in the various communities throughout the archdiocese. And we are working to improve our delivery of the religious education, in the schools and in the CCD programs. The Renewal program that’s part of our bicentennial celebration is a way of bringing people together in homes and small groups to share about their faith, and to hopefully cultivate them for leadership roles in the parishes and the agencies moving forward, as people become more engaged in their local faith communities.
Q: Are there things that you wish had gone differently, or regrets that you have, as you think about these first five years?
A: Well, certainly I wish the reconfiguration had gone more smoothly. However, I am convinced that it had to be done. And someone said there’s no painless dentistry. Had we not gone through that, we would right now be in a very grave crisis just trying to staff the parishes. This has given us a few years for a pastoral planning process that will allow us, hopefully, to be prepared for a reduced number of clergy, and at the same time an opportunity to improve our recruiting efforts. As I say, the seminary has bounced back, and we’ve begun a new diaconate program that will run, take in new classes every year. We’re right now examining, looking for best practices in lay ministry training, because we know that our parishes are going to need more and more trained lay ministers to carry on the different programs of the parishes.
Q: Do you have a plan for the vigils, some idea what you're going to do about those parishes that are in vigil?
A: Well, we’re in ongoing conversations about them, and certainly waiting for final resolutions, ecclesiastically or civilly, but we hope that the people there will feel part of the larger church and be willing to work for reasonable solutions, to work with their neighboring faith communities that are anxious to have them as part of their communities.
Q: Finally, how do you think about controversy and conflict as an element of either the church’s place in society or the archbishop’s place in the city?
A: Certainly ,there’s no way that we’re going to avoid conflict in announcing the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It’s going to come into conflict with those who don’t accept that. However, we see our role as trying to build a civilization of love and unity. So it’s not conflict for conflict’s sake. But if the conflict is there, it’s to help people to have a greater understanding of the truth, and to be more responsible to witness to what we teach, not just to articulate it in our teachings, but to live the Catholic faith in a way that it will help people to realize that we’re doing this because we have a mandate and mission from Christ.
Q: Are you marking the (anniversary) day in any way?
A: I will probably spend it prayerfully. I’m going to visit one of our monasteries and spend the day there.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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