Pope Francis, in some of the most conciliatory words
from any pontiff on gays, said they should not be judged or
marginalised and should be integrated into society, but he reaffirmed
Church teaching that homosexual acts are a sin.
In a broad-ranging 80-minute conversation with
journalists on the plane bringing him back from a week-long visit to
Brazil, Francis also said the Roman Catholic Church's
ban on women priests was definitive, although he would like them to
have more leadership roles in administration and pastoral activities.
He expressed pain over scandals at the Vatican bank during a remarkably forthright press conference, his first since being elected in March to replace Benedict XVI, who became the first pontiff to resign in 600 years.
Francis said there were saints in the Holy See but also "those who are not very saintly".
The airborne encounter with journalists ranged over issues as varied as the pope's insistence on low-key security to his desire to slip out of the shackles of the Vatican to go for walks.
The pope arrived back in Rome on Monday after a triumphant week-long tour of Brazil which climaxed with a huge gathering on Rio de Janeiro's famed Copacabana beach for a world Catholic youth festival, which organisers estimated to have attracted more than 3 million people.
Francis defended gays from discrimination but also referred to the Catholic Church's universal Catechism, which says that while homosexual orientation is not sinful homosexual acts are.
"If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge him?" the pope said.
"The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says they should not be marginalized because of this (orientation) but that they must be integrated into society," he said, speaking in Italian.
"The
problem is not having this orientation. We must be brothers. The
problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people,
political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse
problem," he said.
Francis was answering
a question about reports of a "gay lobby" in the Vatican, after it
suffered a string of scandals over paedophile priests and corruption in
the administration of the Holy See.
"You
see a lot written about the gay lobby. I still have not seen anyone in
the Vatican with an identity card saying they are gay," he joked.
'NO' TO WOMEN PRIESTS IS DEFINITIVE
Addressing
the issue of women priests, the pope said, "The Church has spoken and
says 'no' ... that door is closed."
It was the first time he had spoken
in public on the subject.
"We cannot
limit the role of women in the Church to altar girls or the president of
a charity, there must be more ...," he said in answer to a question.
"But
with regards to the ordination of women, the Church has spoken and says
'no'. Pope John Paul said so with a formula that was definitive. That
door is closed," he said, referring to a document by the late pontiff
which said the ban was part of the infallible teaching of the Church.
The
Church teaches that it cannot ordain women because Jesus willingly
chose only men as his apostles. Advocates of a female priesthood say he
was acting according to the customs of his times.
Many
in the Church, even those who oppose a female priesthood, say women
should be given leadership roles in the Church and the Vatican
administration.
The long session on the plane was highly unusual in the history of the modern papacy for both its candour and breadth.
Unlike
his predecessor Benedict, who knew in advance the few questions
journalists would allowed to ask, 76-year-old Francis, who as an
Argentine was the first non-European pope in 1,300 years, imposed no
restrictions as he fielded 21 questions.
He said his week-long trip to Brazil left him very fatigued but "did me a lot of spiritual good".
He
spoke of reforms he had begun in the Vatican, which has been tarnished
by a series of corruption scandals, including at the Vatican bank, which
is the target of several Italian money laundering investigations.
Francis
said the bank must become "honest and transparent" and that he will
listen to the advice of a commission he has set up on whether it can be
reformed or should be closed altogether.
Francis
referred directly to Monsignor Nunzio Scarano, a Vatican prelate
arrested last month on suspicion of attempting to smuggle 20 million
euros into Italy from Switzerland.
"There
are many people (in the Vatican) who are saints but there are those who
are not very saintly ... and it pains me when this happens. There is
this monsignor in jail. He didn't go to jail because he resembled a
saint ... these are scandals that do damage," he said.
Francis, who in Brazil chose to ride in an open-sided popemobile or a simple Fiat, said he was not concerned about the reduced security he has chosen compared to his predecessors.
"Security
lies in trusting people. It is true that there is always a danger that a
crazy person might try to do something, but there is also the Lord," he
said, adding that he believed it would be even more crazy to be kept
away from people.
Vatican security was
greatly boosted after Pope John Paul was shot and nearly killed by
Turkish gunman Mehmet Ali Agca on May 13, 1981 while he was riding in an
open jeep in St. Peter's Square.